4 foot line post chainlinkFence Foam vs Dry Pack vs Wet Set We compare methods to see which is best for fence posts

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- Welcome to class. That doesnt... So Im sitting on my phone trying to figure out exactly which method of setting a fence post is the best. I just got on YouTube and it looks like theres three different ways. Im coming up with: you have a wet set, you have a dry set, and now you have foam. I feel like Im back in school and I dont know what to do. Join me, and were going to find that out here today we have set up three different methods. We have set up a foam setting method, a dry pack method and a wet set method. Were going to set two posts of each kind each way. So were going to set three different ways and right behind me, were going to start that right now. rock music We have already premixed the concrete that were going to use for our wet set. Weve already filled this hole full, and now were going to fill this hole full. Since were going to do it three times, two times per. We have six holes already dug. All the holes are dug to the same depth. All holes have the same diameter. The frost is 18 inches deep. All holes are going to receive the same post. Theyre going to receive a two and three eighths SS 49 foot posts. scraping sound Each of these two holes have four bags of concrete per hole. The concrete that we have chosen to go with is this one right here by sack Creek 60 pound bag four per hole. Were going to go ahead and get these two wet set. If you want to go ahead and do it. This is my assistant fluffy dragon. laughs It sounded good. laughs Were going to go ahead and backfill the dirt and were going to let these set Theres no water in the hole whatsoever. So all were, were just relying on the water. Thats already in the soil. bag rustling Okay. So we got six and a half which would be three and a quarter. So were going to do is were going to take some trust rod and were going to use that to stabilize our post to hold it level. Were going to use this pre level at our posts. And so we can just pour that foam in there. So this method, this method works really good, especially if your core drilling or a grouting posts in the concrete and you dont have time to sit there and hold each individual one you can do this method and holds it for you. So the foam that we have here we have a part a, and a part B. If we mix all of that, were going to have too much. And were going to have a big foam catastrophe here. So what we have here is we measured the height in the bucket of each, and were going to mix exactly half on half of part A and part B, and we have a line - Of each what - Of part A and part B and we have a line of part A, and part B on the inside of this bucket. So Im not just making up a willy nilly mixture. Were taking half of one part and half of the other part. So were going to take part A and were going to mix it up until it lines up on that line. And I have exactly half and half. So Im going to pour the other half and this and Andrews going to get ready at the drill. As soon as this stuff starts reacting and starts looking like the foam this is very thick and nasty, safety glasses, chemical resistant gloves. Here we go. drill wiring - Its getting bigger as we speak - It is, it is. I guess, if we need to top it off we can mix the rest of it. So this method, this method and Im pretty sure we can get a lot better at it. Its pretty messy. All right. So out of these three methods that we did, we have the foam. I mean, thats pretty solid. I wouldnt go refund on it by any means because thats not going to be fair to the other two methods that we tried, but I mean we can still see that we have a result look at that ones Yea I can stand on that. And thats pretty neat, messy, but pretty neat. We have the dry pack. Im really interested to see what happens here. Kind of interested that I think is going to stay the same. I could be a hundred percent wrong. Maybe itll be really, really hard. And then we have the traditional wet set. I know what happens with this but I want to compare this to the other two methods. So join us in seven days and were going to discover together what happens. - Today is March 4th. Its super wet. Its about three weeks past the time we set these posts. And in the meantime what happened is we got a huge snow storm. Theres still snow. Its about 45 degrees today. Theres lots of water. Theres lots of frozen ground. Were going to see what impact of frozen ground had on the regular concrete and perhaps the foam. And then were going to see what how the dry pack turned out because we got a lot of water. So it had the best chance possible to succeed. So were going to dig these posts up. And the reason that were going to dig them up with an excavator rather than pull them as we want to actually see what the concrete looks like what the foam looks like and see if there was any impact then well tap on it with a hammer. And well see if that had an impact. Then the ones that are left, the three that are left what were going to do is well just kind of see what it takes to get that, to break free. See if we can get those posts to break free by tapping them with a hammer. And then eventually well just pull them out of the ground and see if the concrete separates from the post or the foam separates from the post and find out which ones easier. machine digging - Press it hard - That was some hard ground - So this is - Yeah thats frozen So foam - Dry pack. And wet set, is there going to be any difference? - Now, I did notice when we did the dry pack, they dont seem like all the Portland was going up to the surface. - Yeah, it could be. And you know the way were going to know that - were going to break it off - Is to break it open sledgehammer banging off pole - About what I would expect, honestly. So you can see, it just looks more granulated. I would not call it soft. Ive seen softer concrete. I think that you can, I think the way to get even worse concrete than that, if you mix it too wet I think you could get weaker, concrete than this. It was frozen to about right here, that ground was frozen. So well see if the bottom half comes off easier. I dont think its gonna sledgehammer banging off concrete - Here we go. - I Just cracked it. - So I didnt notice any difference between the top and the bottom. As far as how easy, it broke. I noticed the hollow sound kind of like a it wasnt like solid. It wasnt ringing. Its not as firm. Its not as solid and definitely not as high as PSI. I probably, if we took these down to a lab and we had them do a compression test on it wed probably find that the yield strength is much lower than this. So when you mix the concrete right you get a higher yield strength. Its much like driving a post in the ground. Once you get past about here if the grades up here about a foot down no matter how much that post shakes the bottom really isnt seeing a whole lot action. Well, this isnt going to be sidewalk grade or driveway grade concrete. What its doing is its getting hard enough to actually bond to the post and hold the post where it needs to be Ultimately is it getting harder than the ground around it? I would have to say yes. If we drove this post in ground, this hard it would be in there very, very solid. Its not like this. Stuffs just completely crumbling. Its not super strong, but its definitely stronger than that ground that we put it in. The only thing you dont know is what its going to be like 10 or 15 years from now. This is probably going to degrade and crumble and deteriorate faster over time. But chances are youre going to be replacing the fence before that anyhow So - You want me to take a whack at that one? I can do that one - Sure - I dont want to have all the fun. hammer ringing off concrete So you noticed that ringing sound. That definitely has a more solid sound like a more solid sound when hes hitting it. You can actually hear it ring through the post. Lets continue that - This is taking a little bit more work than that one. I think he cheated actually. He definitely did something. Hes a cheater - Dude Come on, suck it lets go. Have you broke any of it off yet? - I got this piece right here. - Oh, thats it. - Okay. That frozen ground really compromised that concrete This video is expensive. SD cards arent cheap. You either need to learn to be smaller. So you take up less file space or work faster. panting Okay. We cant have you being all big and working slow - Sorry. Sorry. Hammer banging off concrete - Oh, you got a piece yay! Exhaling in frustration Yay Dan! clapping sledgehammer ringing off concrete - Well, I catch my breath. Dry pack on crate is definitely not as hard as what wet set. The frost was probably down to here. Im going to say that had little to no effect on the strength of this concrete. So if youre an engineer and youre thinking well I gotta have those guys take a bunch of special measures and stuff to put that concrete in the frozen ground, please reconsider. I have never found a post that we could put into frost that has ever failed prematurely. Oh, you got a piece that wasnt in frozen ground either. Just, you know, that piece was definitely in thawed grounds. - I got a piece. - Yay! machine banging off concrete sledgehammer ringing off pole - If you look at it you can tell that ones uncured and one is cured so that you can see that its still trying to cure because its still the dark gray. You can see the water still in it. This one over here, you can see its actually starting to turn the standard color of a sidewalk. So its starting to turn that more cured, gray color because it was mixed wet. It was wet set. Theres different between The concrete, from the very bottom of the post which thats from the very bottom and the very top they look exactly the same. And theyre just equally as hard. - The frost and compromise that should have broken. - It should have crumbled real easy - Should have. - Okay. saw wiring I am not seeing anything on the foam different from the top to the bottom either. So this foam came from our local utility service. They use it in all their utility poles. So in a lot of ground nowadays theyre just saying heck with the tamping and theyre just filling the holes full of foam. So this foam is going to be very comparable to your Sitka foam or your post-loss foam. We just got it from the utility company because we needed some in a rush. So, but I dont see any evidence that the frozen ground has had any impact anywhere on this foam. Im not noticing any discoloration. Im not noticing any soft spots, nothing. So its going to cure on the whole. It does probably give off its own heat. I would imagine this is an excellent thermic reaction much like concrete curing. And thats something we didnt talk about either the concrete curing is an exothermic reaction. So there is, it does provide some of its own heat plus the ground around it is going to give it insulation. So its not going to get more frozen. And I think thats why you see this concrete not being compromised by the frozen ground. One of the things to think about is the utility companies. now, a lot of them are going to foam filled utility pole, utility poles. I would consider a utility pole or a power pole much more critical than a fence post. If those things fall over or they fail its going to be much more, much more costly. If its something that our utility companies have decided is okay to use. Then I would say that were safe to use it in the fence industry. And we are seeing that that its yielding some pretty good results. The one thing I do want to test is I want to test that side loading but same thing there. If you think about those utility lines and the winds blowing, I mean, its theyve got some in there 25 feet up in the air. Theres a lot of side loading on those utility posts trying to work that foam free of that pole. And if they have faith in it I think we can safely develop some faith in it, in the fence industry. So, so this one, this and fluffed a little bit more - This one fluffed a little bit more. - It fluffed So we did get some good flu fidge You can trim that off with the sawzall or something like that. If this is, if this is going to be somebodys fence so lets shake it, shake it Dan here get on it - Which way you want to go. - Can you pull it out? Pull it out. - Yeah, I cant do that. - Yeah. If I cant rotate it, I cant pull it out. Wack it. - Wack it? - Wack it, hit it. - Hit it with your purse. - Im getting wet. Were going to add gravity. - I dont see it moving. Put your blade down. Youre still cheating. There you go. machine squeaking Really? Theres always gotta be that one kid. So if youre wondering why we chose to hit these posts with the sledgehammer, that vibration actually sends a shockwave and has the best chance of breaking that free of the surrounding material. So whether it be foam or concrete we see that a lot when we are jack hammering concrete off a post. So if we hit the actual metal itll send a vibration, a shockwave through the post and itll crack that concrete really well. So were just trying to give these the best chance to break free of the concrete and fail. So thats all this is about. sledge hammering I think I probably broke the top two. Oh, I cant pull it out. Were going to need a lot of negative gs Luckily we have a negative G machine right here. Oh, we did get it to fail! All right. Go for it. I think youre going to have to rip it off. You might want to stand back. In case it oops There we go. There you have it. Were talking about shared bonding power. Obviously the foam is the weakest. The dry pack is the second best. And the wet set concrete is the best. And weve proved that in almost every case it took us a lot more work to get the dry pack post out of the concrete. When we started pulling on it ended up just ripping the post out with the frozen ground. Its just not going to come out on the wet site, concrete. We couldnt get it to fail. The concretes bound to it harder, but in a natural setting. I think its very safe to say that any one of these is going to hold up to natures elements. Do you have any, do you disagree with that assumption or you disagree with that statement? - I one hundred percent agree. The one thing I would caution people on this is the thought that you can use one bag of concrete to do the job. I still believe that you need to have concrete from the very bottom of your hall all the way up to just within a couple inches of the top of the hole. When youre thinking about your next project, heres your options. Now, you know which one may be the best which one might not work as well for you. The foam is a lot harder to deal with because you dont have like this. We can raise and lower our posts. This again is going to be something you either need to set your post hall and cut it off. Or youve got to be dead on and know what your elevations need to be at each post as you set it So until next time you have a good dang day. - Yeah, thats the thought - This is a donut - Its for, if you hurt your posterior you can put that in your chair. - Well, yes. - Go ahead sit on it - Precisely. Well, Im gonna get my seat all dirty actually. Hold on. Which is the best method for setting fence posts? Wet set concrete, dry pack concrete, or fence post foam? Everybodys got an opinion and its never a casual opinion, so we thought wed set posts with all of these methods to compare and see for ourselves! We put them in the ground and dig them up 3 weeks later out of frozen ground to see which method held up the best, as well as check for any effect from the frost line.