with Nick Fett tellor vs chainlink[Deep Dive] Blockchain Oracles, Tellor on PulseChain, A True Crypto DeFi Ecosystem!?

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what is going on people its a map from liquid loans and in this one Im joined by Nick Fett whos the CTO of teller a decentralized Oracle protocol that is partnering with liquid loans in this one it will be a deep dive on oracles wide decentralized oracles matter and how you can be a reporter and make money by helping the system so with no further Ado lets go [Applause] hey Nick great to see you thanks for jumping back on the liquid loans Channel with me of course yeah great to be here in our last video with Brenda and CC we touched on Teller and blockchain oracles but in this one if its okay Id like to go a bit deeper and find out more yeah I know Im super excited fantastic so before we go down the rabbit hole maybe we start right at the beginning and start Go Back to Basics what exactly is a blockchain Oracle yeah so Im sure most of your users and listeners will know so blockchains have these things called smart contracts smart contracts they enable basically any account to perform kind of like escrow functions so if this then that the problem with a lot of these smart contracts though is that theyre actually not very smart so they they actually cant read off-chain information and what I mean by that is um if you have a smart contract and you want to know whats the weather today you your smart contract actually has no ability to do that its not like you could go to and grab information off of there in your smart contract you actually need somebody to input that information and and this issue actually arose for so in my previous startup I was doing derivatives so I was trying to create a smart contract platform for derivatives so if you can think Futures and options uh what it boiled down to is you you were basically betting on like the price of cryptocurrency so you would put some ether into a contract and now youre going to bet on the price of Bitcoin the problem though how do you know the price of Bitcoin um you know we were on ethereum at the time and its not like you could just look at the coinbase API you actually needed somebody to go and enter in the price of Bitcoin and this is actually a really big problem this is whats known as the Oracle problem because whenever you have one person with that privilege of entering in the information obviously for derivatives if you know you and I are betting Im saying the price of Bitcoin is going to go down and youre saying its going to go up if I get to say what the price of Bitcoin is at the end of the contract I can obviously cheat you out of the winnings so you know the whole point of blockchains in general was to sort of disintermediate and get rid of middlemen well you have this giant problem and thats what we set out to solve with teller how can you get information on chain uh in a actually decentralized and trustless manner so what are oracles commonly used for obviously in on blockchain weve got prices and stuff like that but is are there any any uses for them that theyre commonly used for yeah so I think you have to think about oracles more generally just how do kind of blockchains talk to the rest of the world anytime you have a bridge so if you are bridging one blockchain to another the blockchains they actually cant talk to each other any more than they can talk to the coinbase API or so all of those bridges they have oracles behind them another big use case for oracles you can look at things such as prediction markets or insurance if you have an insurance claim on a blockchain and you need to know okay well did this event actually happen you need an oracle to tell you that the blockchain doesnt know um and then obviously price feeds as well so lots of different price feeds are being put on and thats probably since weve had this big D5 boom uh a lot of price fees have been put on chain but yeah lots of things you can do so people are actually just starting to experiment with with all the various use cases but as long as you have a method for for grabbing this information from off chain that that sort of Oracles in general awesome and obviously tellers a decentralized Oracle protocol so how does that work from a high level View sure so you know from you can think about it as compared to a centralized Oracle so for you you know whenever we were talking about our example of betting on the price of Bitcoin if it was you know say just me and you we could trust say our CEO Brenda she could she could say she could be our Oracle thats a completely centralized Oracle if she picks sides youre out of luck and then same with um you know if she dies we actually have no way of ever getting our price on chain unless we have a backup so theres definitely big problems but uh should I start whiteboarding now or still stay high level yeah sure lets get into it lets start seeing it mapped out on the Whiteboard so the basics idea of a decentralized Oracle is okay so we have this job thats given to one person but how can you give it to multiple people and this is the same problem that you have in any blockchain system you have you know a traditional database is well basically one person gets to to write to it and then that thats how you would say like a bank Ledger you keep track of it with just one person consistently writing to it and keeping track of it but with a blockchain we all sort of have to come to consensus on that data and that thats how you would decentralize the Oracle process as well you need to have a system zone for how do you come to consensus on a piece of information when its put on chain so the basic way the teller works so Ill draw our smart contract here so this can be our can you guys see that yep okay cool um so this would be our smart contract um were obviously going to be on pulse chain here uh for for the video and then these are going to be the reporters so teller is created by a system of reporters so with these these individuals anybody can be a reporter in our system and theyre going to place uh tokens into the smart contract so youre going to have to deposit tokens as a stake so theyre going to stake these tokens and now you can see locked inside of the smart contract are each of these reporters has token State then lets say you know well draw Matt over here itll be uh hell be a smiley guy down here um he wants the price of Bitcoin in his smart contract so he has his own smart contract and hes going to come and he would say hey he would pay just you know well say one token and hell ask for BTC USB and who what hes saying is this is a tip to our system hes saying whoever whichever one of you reporters tells me the price of Bitcoin Im going to give this one token all of these reporters will then compete to put a piece of data on Jane and then what will happen so you know well say one of these people will will place the value Unchained uh I dont know so itll itll come down here into the BC BTC price of equals I dont know I dont even know what it is uh 20K at the moment 19k or so yeah uh itll be outdated here with the video very shortly um and then so one of the reporters will say that the price of Bitcoin is now if you like this price of Bitcoin on chain you can just use it however once its on chain everyone can see it so well kind of draw a tree here what will happen so uh you you come down and is it a good value so everyone will look and this is how we come to consensus on the information so youll say is it actually 20K well it might not be since we actually dont know we probably dont want to be a reporter um but if it lets say the actual price of Bitcoin is sixty thousand dollars anyone else so you one of the other reporters one of the some random user on um on pulse chain or in liquid loans can come in they can dispute the data so if if yes you would use data it just stays on chain uh if no then it goes to a dispute so basically what happens is once it goes to a dispute you would pay uh well draw another another person would would pay a small fee and it would kick it off to a dispute so you would pull this value off chain and then it goes to a two-day vote and then this two-day vote determines all of the token holders of trb tokens get to say the users get a say and the reporters get to say they all have a weighted portion of the vote and then they would determine uh so good I cant spell today uh so if it was a good value um dispute fee goes to reporter so that small fee that he paid would go to the person who was wrongly disputed and then but if it was bad then the whole stake that that person has goes to the disputer so he gets paid so theres a big incentive for him to monitor the network and make sure that the value is good for the user so you Matt over here wanted the Bitcoin US dollar if it does get disputed your little token reward still hasnt gone anywhere so basically you would get pulled off chain and somebody else would submit a value who would get it so basically it would be really really quick as far as it gets pulled off chain somebody else puts a new one and the whole process starts over should we dispute this one as well if not you can use it so Im not waiting around for two days for a Bitcoin youre not waiting around for two days like some optimistic oracles you simply are probably waiting another few blocks or the price to be put back on chain gotcha so basically theres incentives and disincentives for people to tell the truth correct nice and you can see you know thats the whole sort of its kind of this game theoretical horrible you could say you know how are you incentivizing people to give honest data and at the same time uh sort of trying to make it secure in some sort of ways and you can see you know obviously that there may be some ways you know there are some ways to attack and Im sure we can get into that um but this is the basic way that uh teller can work so the biggest problem in oracles well you tell me Im guessing it is centralization right and this is how we tackle it yeah so I mean that that would be the biggest problem with with most Oracle so most a lot of central historicals wont have this whole dispute process you will just be you know similar to our first example when well say Brenda is our reporter or well say you know Brenda and Cece and Dave theyre gonna be our three reporters they put the values on chain and thats the value you get they call them reputation-based oracles they they would never cheat you because they dont want to ruin their reputation this is obviously you know a complete BS because people throw away their reputation for a little financial gain all the time in the crypto space so but thats why were you know in in the true form of crypto how can you actually make it so anybody can participate here anybody can participate here so if youre thinking about how is this actually a censorship resistor Oracle well you dont just have to request the Bitcoin US dollar price we dont control what you request you can request anything you want whether its information about some other chain whether its potentially information about some sanctioned entity so you know I know there was a tornado cash information if youre running a centralized Oracle And if tornado cash needed is an oracle the Oracle probably wouldnt keep fulfilling requests for them here anybody can be a reporter so as long as theres someone in the world who wants the money its its going to still work and therefore you cant shut it down which is kind of what were striving for so how does one become a reporter if they want to in the network in the tele Network sure so its its basically as simple as this so you would come and you would you would have to go buy some teller tokens uh if youre doing it on pulse chain uh you would Bridge them over or to whatever Network that you would want and then you would stake them in the contract uh once you have them staked in the contract you would have to run software so we provide the software uh or if youre really sort of a go-getter its you can write your own software which a lot of people do basically all youre doing is youre monitoring for these tips youre listening for people to request something and then youre submitting you would go fetch the price so you would you would listen say oh Matt wanted the Bitcoin US dollar what does that mean S I have to go fetch this price and then you submit it on chain and you get a reward and it becomes on a lot of the networks it has become very competitive so as you can imagine um once you do a tip it turns into a race so a lot of times you know youre kind of trying to out code the other person the caveat being so once once you do submit a value youre locked for 12 hours per stake so that would mean that you know if you if you wanted to report say every hour you would need 12 different Stakes in order to do so what about the equipment needed does someone need a lot of mining equipment or a really fast PC or graphics card or anything like that uh no not at all I think yeah the basics of it would just be a normal CPU will work for almost everything some some people especially on ethereum Main net for teller uh theyre starting to compete kind of on the Mev level so if youre familiar with minor extractable value this is where you would basically try and move move up within a block so basically as soon as this tip hits youre either in the same block or in the next block jumping right on board and and that can be very specialized but nothing as far as Hardware requirements go awesome awesome so kind of a low bar of Entry compared to uh you know Bitcoin mining or ethereum mining before obviously when it was yeah and we try and keep these Stakes relatively low so I mean you know theyre slightly different for every Network its based upon block times but its its anywhere between one hundred and two thousand dollars its not you know no some of some of these node requirements as far as Stakes go can be you know hundreds of thousands of dollars but its nowhere near that its definitely a reasonable amount for people to to grab and thats what we want you know part of tellers goal is we have to make sure that we actually have a lot of reporters here and the ability for new people to become reporters uh so that way it actually stays decentralized and we have people incentivized to monitor it awesome obviously not Financial advice but how much can someone make being a reporter for teller overall I think the rewards are I think its like probably 50 000 a month it depends a lot on the price of teller you could make a decent amount doing it whenever theres profit to be made I guess people are going to capitalize on it arent they yeah and thats sort of what you want to make you know this isnt a system where you rely on anyone being honest you just rely on the fact that people want to make money so if you put five dollars up there its not that people want to help you out its that they want your five dollars or they want your you know 50 cents even is what we see tips going for right now its its very very low amount of money that people will will submit money for or submit values for and and thats the system that you want to make you know in the same way like the ethereum network or the Bitcoin network doesnt work because the miners are benevolent and care about the system it works because they want money and they want to sell it and you align these incentives to work so you sort of dont need any sort of altruistic Behavior between the participants appealing to self-interest right everyones favorite topic correct so I think another Oracle protocol that a lot of people know about is chain link how does teller compare to chain link sure so so chain link actually just doesnt have this side of the board uh chain link is kind of like I was talking about a reputation-based Oracle so these would be whitelisted reporters so they do have to stake but theyre controlled by basically the chain link team gets to whitelist these reporters and they put the values on chain and once they put on chain you rely them granted its been working for a while but theres not really a whole lot of decentralization to it not anybody can go become a reporter theres no way to sort of if they decide to shut down not a whole lot you can do so this was something that we had decided that we wanted to build something that that sort of fit the values of the system a little bit better so why do centralized oracles fail so I think there you actually havent had too many centralized oracles fail you know a lot of people use for Price feeds youll see uniswap be used a lot I mean and uniswap has a big problem because its completely Unchained so its youre able to manipulate it so if youre just using a price feed on chain its the same problem as if you would just go take your price from one Exchange but people can go throw the price on that exchange so that thats usually one of the big attacks that we see on a lot of Oracle systems other bombs that youve seen with some centralized oracles is that theyll just go down so like if gas prices go really high or if their software Source it sort of bugs out they just wont submit prices for a day or you know a few hours and the problem is is that thats okay you know it happens it could happen to a teller reporter but you have no recourse as a user you know with teller you could go stake and report your own value like another reporter could step up like theres incentives but if a centralized Oracle goes down not much you can really do so with redundancy what happens when an oracle fails is there a backup plan some people actually do use fallbacks so you know like we were partnered with liquidy for instance so they use chain link and then if chain link ever goes down then they use teller and its a its sort of a model that can work and a lot of people will use Oracle setups where you could use uniswap for instance unless Universe outside of the bounds of teller or something like that and having these multiple oracles can sort of help set up but you just have to be sure on on how you set them up that you actually dont increase the attack risk you know its for similar like if you were taking an average of three oracles thats actually worse than just choosing one Oracle because now if you break any one of those oracles you can kind of throw the whole price so you want to make sure that youre actually just uh making the system sort of fall back in the right methods you know if if something shuts down or if theyre not live or something like that knowing where certain oracles have strengths versus others and I guess teller you know excels in the fact that its decentralized meaning youre decentralized because you have so many different reporters giving different bits of information is that right well and its decentralized in the fact that anybody can do it you know that thats really the big caveat so even if you had like 500 reporters that were all whitelisted and controlled by one entity that wouldnt necessarily matter its the fact that you know you as the reporter theres nothing we can say that says you cant request the price of Bitcoin theres nothing that we can do to prevent somebody from submitting the price of Bitcoin on chain its completely censorship resistance as far as or permissionless is what you could say and you know same with who can we who can be a reporter well anybody can all you have to do is go buy some tokens and run a piece of software that you can probably write on your own pretty simply I saw you talk on another video about how oracles are The Missing Link in true defy right whether were talking about bridges consensus dexes could you extrapolate a bit more on that yeah so what youre trying to see now is people are coming up with a lot of really cool ideas you know whenever you see um you know how do we do a cross chain amm we dont know you know this is one of those things like like if you look and think like okay in five years where is the space gonna be were probably gonna have you know 50 different chains all with a lot of volume on it youre gonna have be able to swap back and forth from change to chain it doesnt matter you know which assets youre in it doesnt matter I guess um you know which protocol in youll be able to find and grab yields and grab all of the different exotic Financial products in any chain and itll sort of work seamlessly you know this is the dream and we sort of have the ability to get there but that ability to talk from chain to chain and then also to grab information from off chain so the one example I always like to do if we wanted to say bet on housing prices in the U.S or bet on actual financial instruments so I think you can think stocks you can think bonds you can bring that information on chain to create synthetic assets but you need oracles and then this is something thats thats really been missing and I think Kellers sort of one of these pieces and fundamental Primitives of this of sort of all of these blockchain ecosystems that that can kind of tie it together and make that future happen absolutely what about scalability and Longevity how can that be achieved for teller yeah I mean the big thing that we want to be you know this is like a different sort of model than a traditional company its like you know we we want to be sort of a protocol like like ethereum you know how does ethereum have longevity well you have people using it you have you know it becomes the standard it becomes one of these things that people are just using and incentivized to build on its not like its managed from a central team or that you need to rely on outside funding its just the system works the incentives are properly in place that everything sort of runs and thats what were working on becoming is just sort of this this protocol for for making off-train information and bringing it on chain a lot of people watching this are going to be in the post chain ecosystem and I guess the question would be how is teller going to bring value to pulse chain oh I mean I I think the cool thing about it is you know tellers permissionless you can go anywhere but you know its one of these things like Pauls chain like its an evm and you can deploy an oracle over there and now you guys are top of the game you guys have the tools that any other ecosystem can have as far as you can now you can connect Paul straight into polygon you connect fall straight into arbitrary you can connect false change optimism pull straight into ethereum to Cosmos once you have that ability you know now people from all of these ecosystems can come on the pulse chain now you can you know if you wanted to the one cool thing you could do if you wanted to say airdrop tokens that you made on pulse to all of the token holders on a specific community teller can bring those balances over for you you could have liquid loans like governed by the token holders on some ethereum chain like it actually doesnt you know once you remove the barriers of talking across chain it enables a lot for you guys over upholstering and why does liquid loans need teller how is teller really going to help liquid loans yeah so liquid loans the way the liquid loans works Im sure almost all of your listeners know way way better than I do you guys will place tokens into the system and then youll be issuing out stable coins so US dollar based tokens the problem with any stable coin is you need to know that its fully backed so is the collateral in the system worth how many tokens are outstanding and to do that you need an external price feed so you know if you have 500 pulse tokens in there and you issue 500 stable coins the pulse tokens better be worth at least one dollar or else you have a problem and the stable coins arent able to be redeemed gotcha so youre going to be helping obviously getting different price calls different price feeds and yeah so basically we we would tell them whats the price of the pulse token in there that way they know okay the whole system is fully collateralized everythings good to go if the teller reporters were to say hey the collateral is not enough does it mean its obligations then uh you can actually liquidate some of those troves so depending on you know uh how underwater they are they might be able to fill them back up but you would basically just make sure that the whole system is functioning as properly sort of like kind of like a regulator if you will uh on top of the whole system we call them vaults over on uh liquid loans but yeah they actually are called troves on liquidy oh okay cool small correction there lets shift gears a little bit I want to find out more about the teller token and how that works its an erc20 token I think um its a pretty standard token um its on ethereum mainnet and basically so yeah we use it for the things in the system but there are a few sort of caveats about how it works um the one thing you know so we do have an inflation rate in the token so we Mint new tokens every month uh some of them go to the team so we have whats called a Dev share this was like I dont know if youre familiar with like the early zcash model this is where we had got it from when we launched in in 2019 when we get tokens sent to us every month and then other tokens we mint and we pay as rewards so basically every its sort of like an hourglass we call them time-based rewards and they trickle into the system so every few minutes we mint out I think its about 4 000 tokens every month are issued to the to basically add to your tips so if youre submitting a you know one token tip whatever you the reporters report on it its theyll probably get way more than just one token so it makes it sort of incentivizes reporters to keep reporting um and the reason that you this was something that we did sort of similar to like a block reward on on bitcoin it incentivizes people to keep Mining and keeps the security nice and high in the system awesome so for people that are interested in becoming a reporter or want more info what whats the next step for them yeah so I think um I know were not quite live on pulse Junior um but you know I I know we are live over there on the test net you could probably reach out to the liquid loans team and were going to be talking with them and working with them to to make sure that you can run a testnet reporter there um but if you would want to you can actually start testing already over on say Mumbai polygon or or ethereum and you can go grab your tokens and deposit and start running so youre familiar with the whole system awesome so would it be going to your YouTube and watching a video would it be going to your website and downloading the software whats the next yeah I mean the biggest thing just go to thats our main website or docs.teller.ios or documentation uh you can click become a reporter and itll walk you through the whole process you should be able to get set up you know and happy to definitely come to our Discord or just reach out to us uh even through the liquid loans guys um you know we sat down and helped them set up their reporters and will do the same for anybody you know we love seeing people come on and especially people who kind of care about the system and want to do it to actually run it for somebody like liquid loans or a project which is great to see fantastic well Ill put all those links in the description box below for anyone whos interested I really appreciate your time today Nick where should people go to find out more about teller online yeah just tell her that I owe um or you can come to our YouTube channel as well um lots of videos every week um kind of showing what were working on awesome thanks again for your time buddy thanks so I hope you enjoyed that video with Nick Fett and learned more about decentralized oracles and why they matter if you like content like this do hit that subscribe button and that Bell icon so youre notified every time we drop new videos on the channel you can also tap the like button share the video with someone who you think it may benefit and if youre feeling very kind consider dropping a cheeky comment below for the algo it does help us out thanks for watching and I will see you on the next one foreign In this video, Matt talks to the CTO of Tellor, Nick Fett, about blockchain oracles, why a truly decentralized oracle is crucial to a true crypto DeFi ecosystem, and how Tellor will do that on PulseChain for the Liquid Loans protocol and more...0:00 - Introduction 0:27 - Nicks Intro 0:46 - What is an oracle? 2:35 - What are oracles mainly used for? 3:43 - How does a decentralized oracle work? 4:26 - Tellor whiteboard example 10:09 - Incentives and disincentives for reporters 10:42 - Biggest issue with oracles? 12:16 - How to become a Tellor reporter? 15:10 - How much can reporters earn? 16:17 - Tellor vs Chainlink? 17:03 - Why do centralized oracles fail? 18:09 - Redundancy? 19:09 - Tellors decentralization set-up? 20:00 - Are oracles the missing link in DeFi? 21:31 - Scalability and longevity for Tellor? 22:12 - Tellor on PulseChain 23:22 - Why do Liquid Loans need Tellor? 25:05 - The Tellor token 26:33 - Next step for becoming a reporter? 27:55 - Tellors website and social media 28:09 - Outro ------------ Join the DeFi revolution with LiquidLoans - the first truly decentralized lending protocol built specifically for PulseChain. Experience the benefits of immutable, non-custodial and governance-free lending with no admin keys. With Liquid Loans, extract value from your PulseChain holdings without ever selling by locking up Pulse and minting USDL stablecoin. Earn income by providing stability to the ecosystem; stake your loan tokens for rewards; and redeem your Pulse. Join the movement for a more secure, transparent and stable financial infrastructure powered by Liquid Loans. Visit to learn more and see what’s possible for you. LoveLiquidLoans NeverSelling Connect with us: Website: Telegram: Twitter: TikTok: LinkedIn: Video Podcast on Spotify: Podcast on Amazon: Podcast on Apple: PulseChain,DeFi,decentralized,